Mirror Sites: CSUDH - Habermas - UWP
Sticks and Stones in the Academy - ASA 2000

Caliifornia State University, Dominguez Hills
University of Wisconsin, Parkside
Latest Update: August 26, 2001
jeannecurran@habermas.org
takata@uwp.edu

Susan's journal entry:

Gale's report will be coming soon. I read the first draft and asked her to add more on her presentation. she didn't mention how she got the audience to stand up and with hands up in the air twirl around in front of their seats. (gale -- add that and explain why you did that).

i knew from the day before that the likelihood of marlene coming to the session was not probable, given she had to work and was in the next county over, etc. etc. at any rate, i don't think gale realized that she would be up at the presenters table with the rest. (although i did ask kevin, the session organizer if things could be a little more informal but he liked the formality of presenters at the table, etc).

i noticed the other presenters with lap tops, overhead projector images, etc. were all into their tech stuff. reminded me of how "poor" we were but at least we had a handout of the dear habemas site.

the interesting aspect of the first presenter was her struggle to define "community." the second presenters had all these overheads and they kept referring to students as consumers which i didn't like. they seemed to think that you can "subsitute" the face-to-face interaction with internet and other high tech ways of communicating (and we have learned that the technology is no substitute for the face to face. the face to face is still important; if not even more important these days. the new technologies enable us to communicate in more and different ways when we're stuck in traffic or have an ill family member to tend to which prevents us from attending class on occasion). the third presenter had powerpoint and was all quantitative. (that's when i turned to eric and said, "don't worry. i don't understand a dang thing he's saying either." and we laughed quietly). this third presenter was trying to quantify relationships stemming from the internet.

by the time, gale gave her presentation the audience had gone through all these overheads and powerpoint stuff. i think they identified with gale's qualitative data presentation and found that more easily understandable and more identifiable -- the obvious strength of qualitative data. As herb blumer used to ask, how can you quantify before you can understand the social meanings behind the data collected and concepts used? the main point of gale's talk was that the dear habermas site has become a "place" for a community of learners. (i prefer to use the term, playing in the sandbox). some individuals in the audience were surprised that our students wanted more face to face time through gale's wednesday discussion sessions and through mac's web boards (and gale's corrections class web board).

gale did an excellent job of combining some of her reno presentation with some of our marxist roundtable discussion the day before. (i was so proud of how her presentation went and how she got individuals in the audience to knod in agreement with her). gale received the most questions from the audience. after the session, we exchanged business cards with a woman who is in charge of faculty development at UW Superior (in the same UW system as UWP but we had to meet in anaheim to find out what each other is doing).

susan

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Gale Horton
August, 2001

American Sociological Association Annual Meeting/Anaheim, California

As I anticipated the ASA Annual Meeting I looked forward again to meeting with Dr. Jeanne Curran and the students from CSUDH (California State University, Dominguez Hills). I was anxious to continue our conversations and thoughts on the importance and relevance to learning via the Internet. After all, that is how most of us met and how our academic and personal relationships grew.

Our first session (Sunday, August 19th) was a roundtable meeting on Marxist Sociology. We discussed the fact that Marx needs to be reinterpreted in the 21st Century. We need to get a sense of Marx through the "Real World". That our learning is like that of a 'palm tree'; we are growing as we learn, taking all things in. And, like the palm tree, we go dormant for a time understanding and giving meaning to what we have learned. Once we have processed what we have learned, like the palm tree, we begin to grow again.

jeanne's comment:

The image of the palm and its spurts of growth is from Paul Valery.

Students and teachers alike, are in a constant state of learning. We are all learning and growing together. Once a teacher assumes they "own" learning, they cease to be a teacher and then become the instructor.

jeanne's comment:

And that imagery is straight from Paolo Freire and his "circles of certainty."

Teachers and instructors do not "own" learning - that is not 'real'. To be a successful teacher, one must be willing to learn as well.

Teachers cannot tell us what to learn; they can only offer the information to students and allow students to interpret what they have been told or what they have read. Like philosophers, once the information is put out there and you have begun to share ideas, it is all open to interpretation. How philosophers were interpreted in the 20th Century may not be how they will be interpreted during the 21st Century. That does not mean the interpretation of the 20th Century is wrong or that the 21st Century interpretation is better, it only means they will be different. In the last one hundred years our society has become stimulated by; radio, movies, TV, the media and now the Internet. We are not going to take steps backwards, we will only continue to move in a forward direction. One thing we are guaranteed is that philosophy is open to interpretation and one's interpretation is open to change. Once one has written or verbalized a thought it is open to any and all forms of interpretation. One no longer "owns" that thought. Interpretation can change from day to day, year to year and even century to century. Interpretation will be different among the many races, classes, cultures and genders in society.

This is one reason the Dear Habermas site, http://www.csudh.edu/dearhabermas was created. It is a free, open site that offers a forum for all to share ideas and thoughts. The site recognizes the need for public discourse free from judgement. Dear Habermas is committed to listening in "good faith". Discourse cannot work from the top down, like a filtration system. It must act as a sieve, with all participants contributing equally to the thoughts and conversations. All participants must be allowed to be part of the history, the learning process. The site provides all levels of learning without saying who is right and who is wrong. The ultimate arrogance would be, not to respect the thoughts and opinions of others. Dear Habermas allows one to make his/her own decisions. The site proudly announces to the academic world, as well as the general public "Here is Learning" and encourages all the "come and learn". As one learns to trust, one learns to participate in public discourse without fear of judgement or criticisms. It is a free, open site that offers a forum for all to share ideas and thoughts. The site recognizes the need for public discourse free from judgement. Dear Habermas is committed to listening in "good faith". Discourse can not work from the topdown,

jeanne's comment:

I think there's a double-entry in here somewhere. We'll catch it tomorrow.

like a filtration system. It must act as a sieve, with all participants contributing equally to the thoughts and conversations. All participants must be allowed to be part of the history, the learning process. The site provides all levels of learning without saying who is right and who is wrong. The ultimate arrogance would be, not to respect the thoughts and opinions of others. Dear Habermas allows one to make his/her own decisions. The site proudly announces to the academic world, as well as the general public "Here is Learning" and encourages all the "come and learn". As one learns to trust, one learns to participate in public discourse without fear of judgement or criticism.

The next day (Monday, August 20th), I participated in the session on the Sociology of the Internet. As we (Dr. Takata & myself) were entering the assigned room, it dawned on me that the student expected to present (from CSUDH) was not going to make it due to her work schedule. Dr. Takata informed me that I was going to step in and represent both UWP and CSUDH and present for this session. She made me feel fully confident that I could "wing it". This was not a problem for me, after all how hard could it be to sit in on a discussion regarding the advancement of the Internet and the intricate part it will play in the future of learning. Yet, when we entered the room, it was set up in a formal manner; a table in front, chairs for members of the audience and a moderator. A moderator for gosh sakes, and with that I was overtaken with a feeling of panic. Where could I run, where could I hide and how was I going to do this? I was without a paper to present and only my learning experience and knowledge of Dear Habermas. Once I accepted what was happening, I knew in my heart that I was prepared to do this and was even honored that Dr. Takata had faith in me to succeed. After all, if I was to believe what my mentor had taught me over the past year, how could I not do this and not be successful? I moved forward, took my place at the table with the rest of the presenters and waited my turn.

There were four presentations; with mine being the last. The first presentation was by a young woman from Kent State, who researched the Internet advancement in her hometown. It was a very quantitative report with a PowerPoint presentation containing statistics of advancement in her small town. Bringing, into the 21st Century, her village of less than 5,000 in the beginning to a city with a population of over 5,000. Enlightening us with the Internet site of her city and inviting us all to visit on our travels across America. The second presentation was given by what I assumed to be graduate students from the Teachers College, Columbia University. This PowerPoint presentation was also quantitative and very exact in its study of the relational power structures of various institutional configurations that provide online learning opportunities. I believe the presenters, who often referred to students as consumers, were trying to convince us that Web-casting is the wave of future learning, it is the learning arena of the 21st Century. To quote one sentence from their paper; "Institutions who offer online education opportunities present the potential to develop higher quality learning opportunities and distribute them to more people and transcend more divides than traditional learning tools and institutional structures". Now, that is quite a mouthful, not sure if I believe it - but it sure sounds important. My interpretation of this; it sounded more like a sales pitch for online learning and Web-casting rather then offering some insight to what the future may hold as far as online learning is concerned. They almost went as far as to tell us that those universities or learning institutions that cannot comply or keep up with the advanced technologies will be thought of as substandard. The third presentation was also done with PowerPoint; quantitative statistics, percentages and comparisons of those individuals who accessed online sites for both learning and/or personal use.

I, as the last speaker, gave a more qualitative presentation. Before I began I felt the need to 'move' the audience. Like myself, it looked as though most everyone was on the verge of 'snoozing' and we had all ready lost some members of the audience. We had all just sat through three, twenty-minute presentations of quantitative information - we really did not need any more statistics. In my effort to refocus the audience I had everyone stand up, reach for the ceiling, stay in place and spin slowly in a circle. After which, they were instructed to again take their seats. I explained to them that now they could somewhat understand and relate to my feelings of returning to the academic community. Away from the school setting at least twenty-five years, returning to my studies and informed that now I would need and learn to depend on the Internet. I would learn to trust not only the teachers and instructors, but also students my son's age. I would not learn only by sitting at my desk waiting for information to be fed to me and taking notes as in the 'old days'. I would learn side by side with teachers, instructors, and students from my school as well as students from across the country. After all, we all know that online learning is the wave of the future. Little did we know that when we all laughed at the 'Jetsons' cartoon so many years ago that most of it would be a reality today; we have been to the moon, we have people living in space, computers run the offices & factories and robots can perform surgery. One of the few things we don't do is fly around in cars and take buses or vacations to other planets. But who's to say that isn't in the near future - sooner then we think.

Philosophers and scientists, of years ago, predicted that technology would connect and practically run the world. Learning is headed in that direction. We don't need a bunch of quantitative statistics to tell us that - we really all ready know it. What we do need is to help teachers, students and universities adjust to this style of learning. It is about introducing teachers, students and universities to this style of learning; making all parties comfortable and convincing the academic community, if done correctly, this style of learning can be trusted. As I stated in my presentation, I was dragged kicking and screaming into the online learning community. Communicating with Dr. Takata, other students in my class/other classes and students across the country was unimaginable. My computer was used for typing and printing papers. With my computer came the luxury of spell check, grammar check and correcting without whiteout. Once I conquered my fears, learned how to use my computer for more then just a glorified typewriter, I wanted everyone to feel the security I did. I explained how Dear Habermas allows one to be in a constant state of learning. How one can trust that their opinion is valued as much as the next person. Reiterating that the Dear Habermas site recognizes the need for public discourse with "good faith" listening and freedom from judgement. That anyone and everyone are welcome to visit the site and post comments, thoughts and opinions.

Finally, when Kevin (the moderator) asked for questions from the audience, it seemed to me that most people were interested more in the qualitative, rather the quantitative information. I was asked my opinion on Web-casting, how we need to inform students, teachers and universities about online learning opportunities. How can the academic community encourage people to become part of this learning process without the fear of new technology? One professor from the University of Wisconsin-Superior wanted a copy of my papers to cite in a journal article she is writing. She showed real interest in the fact that I was a nontraditional student, returning to the academic setting and supporting the online learning process.

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On Sunday night, August 26, Susan wrote to Gale:

between 10 and 11 is a good time for me to meet with you. how about you? i've forwarded this to jeanne. don't know if she's added your first draft or not.

maybe "winging it" isn't the right term to describe what went on. you were always prepared to participate but didn't anticipate taking over the entire presentation all by yourself (might that better describe what went on). i don't want it look like you came to the meetings without preparation.

susan

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