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Created: September 23, 2003
Latest Update: September 23, 2003
jeannecurran@habermas.org
takata@uwp.edu

Clarifying Concepts through Our Commentary

Site Copyright: Jeanne Curran and Susan R. Takata and Individual Authors, September 2003.
"Fair use" encouraged.

This exchange shows how you can start by answering a question and give me your understanding of the concept in the process, so that I can clear up misunderstandings. Be sure when this happens that you get back in touc On Monday, September 22, 2003, Joyce Jones, CSUDH, wrote:

Subject: What Numbers Can and Can't Do

Discussions Questions:

1. There is not much numbers can't do. The only thing I could think of is that Numbers can't be universal or translated into or represent (accurately) all languages in the world.

   Why not? I think we can count and do mathematical operations in any language, especially since math is a form of language. I don't think I understand what you have in mind. jeanne

   Also, without a manuscript representation or correspondence, numbers can't exist.

   Sorry, I'm stumped. The example you give below is one of coding. Is that what you mean?

   For example: a form that says. 1= male 2= female; 1=Employed 2=Not employed 3=Disabled 4=Fixed Income such as SSI/Welfare.

   • Are you employed? (1)
   • What is your gender (2)

   Looks like you coded those two correctly if you are a female and employed? Tell me in class Thursday, what you're trying to say here. jeanne

2. A research company could generate the data for a local city on all their undetected alcoholics for their new MADD campaign by using self-reports that are anonymous to ensure honesty of participants. Undetected: Undiscovered true character of; Undetermined existence, presence, or fact of.

   This is a great example. A research commpany could NOT possibly detect undetected alcoholics because they are undetected. I f they were willing to give self-reports honestly on their alcoholism they wouldn't be undetected. It's a trick question, that a real city asked a real research group to do because they didn't understand that numbers and a computer can't change whether someone is undetected or not. And if they are undetected, you can't count them, because you can't detect them. Get it?

   What I would like you to do now, is to talk to me and let me know that you get it. jeanne

3. Numbers could give an estimated figure of Los Angeles residence, but could never be accurate because people are born and people die everyday. Plus, if a household has a father and a pregnant mother, including three children, how many are in the household? 5.5 people because assuming the pregnant mother doesn't have multiple babies in her, that one in the stomach, usually is counted as a half of person until birth.

   Well, how you count the unborn child should be included in the codebook. (Appendix E of McKendrick.)

   But you seem to be referring to the accuracy of the sampling. The unborn child wouldn't throw that off. What throws off the census and other such surveys is that there many, many people living in unexpected places, sometimes renting illegal space, as in a wealthy single residence home that rents out to someone, or living with many more people than are legally recognized to live there. The census deals with this by doing its own sampling frame. That means they send people out to walk around and try to find every imaginable place that someone might be living. jeanne

4. Before calculating the number of smart people in LA, we would need an accurate definition of what "SMART" is first. People in agricultural society seem smart to me because they are able to cultivate land, plant, and harvest vegatation, but may not have gone to school to learn this, but passed the learning down through generations of observation. And someone who would need to study it would not be considered smart. So, how to we test smartness?

   I.Q. test which is mathematical itself - Well, not really. Results just reported mathematically.
   or applied common sense in this society that may not be applied as common sense in other societies. But good point; measurement is culture-bound. So what is common sense one place may not be in anotehr. jeanne

On Monday, September 23, 2003, Joyce Jones, CSUDH, also wrote:

Theory, Policy, and Practice share a unique relationship.

Yes, but that doesn't say anything. You get points with me for saying something in every sentence. jeanne

A situation starts as a theory, if logical, it is created into policy which is eventually implemented or practiced.

No. This is a misconception. If the theory appears logical and appears to explain situations and/or actions in the real world, then it is tested with scientific evidence techniques. In the social sciences we try to make sure that the measurements in that scientific evidence are not just numbers and counting, but take also into account the social context in which the measurements occur. If we find some evidence that the theory does explain or predict observed behaviors, like criminal acts, of concern to us, then we can rely on it to make policy for dealing with the issues explained or predicted by the theory.

1. A practice or implementation of something could generate a policy to make it official, and from there theories are drawn in order to explain and or understand the results.

   Actually, this is a pretty good answer. But you've done an interesting thing here. You've reversed the procedure in the first part of your answer. There you started with theory and developed practice from the theory and its policy. Here, you start with practice, generate policy from the practice, and then draw your theory from this grounded practice.

   I think we'll discuss this in agencies class, and be sure that we all have these issues straight. You can let me know that you've got it now by class discussion or catching me in the halls or the office. But DO let me know that you've got it. jeanne

   I was only able to email you these two answers for the Exercise so far. The other two require me to think a little more before I answer. Actually, I need to understand the question in order to generate an answer.

   Thank you for that insightful consideration of what you're doing. It tells me that you really are learning. But you don't have to do that all along. E-mail me your questions as you think, and we can discuss them in class.

   B submission that will become an A as you let me know that you've got it. jeanne

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