A Justice Site
California State University, Dominguez Hills
University of Wisconsin, Parkside
Created: February 21, 2001
Latest update: March 7, 2001
jeannecurran@habermas.org
- Discipline of the young begins with self-discipline. by Latoya Lewis, Peace and Conflict class.
It's all about RESPECT by Sakeenah Thomas, Peace and Conflict class.
On Tuesday, March 6, 2001, Latoya Lewis wrote:
Latoya Lewis SOC.395 T,Th 2:30-3:45
Hello Jeanne,
While you were out Pat did a wonderful job teaching the course. We had a very interesting open discussion. We began talking about what you wrote on the site to Pat about violence and guns, which led to the discussion of discipline. After spending the majority of the time defining discipline (for which everyone had their own definition) Pat, at the end of class said something that was very interesting. She said that discipline starts with self-discipline. I had never thought about discipline like that. Through this discussion I've learned that before I can discipline my own child I have to discipline myself. For example, waiting until you cool off after a child has made you mad and then disciplining them is a better choice than to discipline them when I am angry and also explaining to them why they are being punished (every time) is important. This, in my case, will take some type of supernatural self control because when I was a child I was given an explaination some of the time but not all the time. Overall, I really enjoyed the class today and am looking forward to your coming back.On Tuesday, March 6, 2001, jeanne responded:
Latoya, thank you for your quick summary of class on Tuesday. I cannot tell you how pleased I was that you were thoughtful enough to include me in the discussion. As we consider the means of getting to peacemaking, we're going to think a lot on discipline and self-discipline.I particularly liked your emphasis on providing explanations for discipline. That comes back to restrictive and elaborated language codes.
On Wednesday, March 7, 2001, Sakeenah Thomas wrote:
Hi Jeanne it's Sakeenah Thomas from your Peace and Conflict class. I'm sorry that you are still under the weather. I hope that you will feel better soon! One thing that I would like to comment on is the WONDERFUL discussion group that we had in class with Pat yesterday. It was awesome,very enlightening, and it sparked my interest very much. We talked about the Santee shooting, the respect that kids should be taught at home and also how children are disciplined both in school and at home.Children start learning to respect others at home. Well at least that is how it was for me. The problem today, as we discussed yesterday, is that negative behavior that is acted out by children is being supported by some parents. Some children feel as though they can get away with "murder" because they know that their parents will uphold them in their behavior. Some children may go to school and disrespect their teacher, the teacher will discipline the child in some way, and the parent will act only on the one-sided story that they may have heard.
Ok Jeanne Iapologize for this, I know that you said to keep it short, I just have to end by saying this: teachers are in the presence of children for a large portion of the day. Teachers have to feel as though they can properly discipline children for their negative behavior and the parents will support them in doing so. Only until then will children begin to show the same respect that they should have for their parents, to their teachers.
On Wednesday, March 7, jeanne responded:
Good comments, Sakeenah. I know that Pat is pleased with your praise. And I am delighted to be included in these wonderful discussions.You took an interesting position: that discipline begins at home. That teachers cannot effectively discipline without parental support. I agree. But I would like to go back to one of the issues that Latoya raised: how does self-discipline fit in as we consider the interpersonal relationships between teacher and parents and teacher and student? What if you had Jean-Michel Basquiat in your classroom? His father wanted to discipline him. Father and teachers agreed. But Jean-Michel remained "the wild child."
I look forward to hearing more from you on this.
love and peace, jeanne
On Wednesday, March 7, 2001, Shana of UWP wrote:
Shana was in San Diego for the Western Social Science Meetings with us last year.Hi Susan, I have been in Key West on a little vacation. I just read a little on the site additions on the latest shooting incident. I was impressed with Jeanne's introduction of Respect into our social structure. I am convinced that respect is the basis for healthy growth. It begins with a self-respect each of us desperately need and then continues throughout our lives. Because of my age and upbringing I know that I fall into the category of people who automatically respected elders, parents, teachers, etc. and while I understand that that respect is often undeserving, there must be a standard of respect or the individual is lost. I think this latest shooting incident reinforces that fact. This young man had no respect from anyone, it sounds like, and even his threats weren't respected or recognized. What a terrible loss for this young man and the whole society. He is fifteen years old and now faces his entire future in jail. If just one person had validated him everything might have been different.Are we raising more sociopaths now or do we just hear about more of them? Are they really sociopaths or simply lost souls looking for validation and respect from someone? Nonviolent interactions should be the norm and respect for self and others a basic lesson from birth forward, but somehow it is being lost.
On Wednesday, March 7, 2001, jeanne responded:
Shana, it's so good to hear from you. Susan forwarded your e-mail, and we are delighted to have your participation in the discussion. I'm embarassed to admit that "Shana Banana" keeps popping up in my head instead of your last name. See what happens when your teacher is image-oriented??? Shana kept telling us in San Diego that her name was Shana, like Shana Banana!Shana, I think we need to continue our discussions about respect and how we achieve it, one on one, as well as a guide to group exchange. Actually, the Shooting Suspect's Heart Was Still in His Small Maryland Hometown, the LA Times article on Wednesday, March 7, points out that this young man did in fact know respect and love, but in Maryland, not in Santee. Perhaps that suggests that the mobility we have become so used to accepting, with moves cross-country to accommodate the job market, may not accommodate us as humans so well.
I hope we're not training more sociopaths. I think we're failing to accept that mental health may be a fundamental part of education, and that we're neglecting it.
love and peace, jeanne
On Wednesday, March 7, 2001, Teidra wrote:
Hello jeanne,I wanted to discuss the shooting that took place in the Santana high school on Monday. First off, I think that the kid difinitely showed a lot of warning signs. To his peers as well as his family, but they choose to disreguard his cries for help, in my opinion. To them he was a nobody a puny, punk, and I think they felt that because he was so passive, in the past. He couldn't possibly kill anyone. He was the type to let people bully him, take his money, skate board etc... Things of that nature. So just because he makes a couple of threats to them about shooting the class, they found this to be unreal. I think a lot of kids display their cries for help differently, but some are so clear, as I think this one was. I think that his friends and family definitely should feel remorse, for they maybe could have prevented this from happening had they spoken up.
Thanks, Teidra, Theory class.
On Wednesday, March 7, 2001, jeanne responded:
Good comment, Teidra. I think you've done a good job of stating in your own words that we are all remiss in our failure to listen to young people in good faith. Oddly enough, the descriptions of Andy as puny, a punk, etc., were not shared by his friends at the school he left in Maryland. See Shooting Suspect's Heart Was Still in His Small Maryland Hometown, the LA Times article from Wednesday, March 7, 2001.Personality and identity are not cemented in place, particularly in the formative adolescent yearss. We are many possibiliities. Obviously, judging by the reactions from Andy's little Maryland hometown, he, too, had many identitites. Perhaps what we need to remind ourselves of is that we must take each of those possibilities seriously, and listen to them each in turn in good faith. Perhaps that would be a good definition for respect, hmm?
love and peace, jeanne
