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California State University, Dominguez Hills
University of Wisconsin, Parkside
Created: March 18, 2001
Latest update: March 20, 2001
 E-Mailjeannecurran@habermas.org

St. Patrick's Day and Justice Shamrock

These shared comments arose from TR Young's posting on Luck of the Irish on March 17, 2001.

  • St. Paddy's Day: The Wearing of the Green by TR Young

  • Angel Holliday's comments on St. Paddy's Day
  • TR Young's response to Angel
  • Keyana Woolen's comments on St. Paddy's Day

    On Sunday, March 18, 2001, Angel Holliday wrote:

    Hello Jeanne, I read the article by T.R. Young's St. Paddy's Day: The Wearing of the Green. I never knew why we celebrated St. Patrick's Day. This article clarified a lot of things for me. However, I still have a few questions. In the article, T.R. Young mentioned the emergence of the KKK. The motive of the Klan was inspired by the British exploiting their land. During the Irish Famine (disastrous food shortage in Ireland) tons of food were shipped from Irish ports to England. The Irish people were starving and hardly had enough food for themselves.

    How close is the connection with the Klan in Ireland to the Klan in America? What is the motive for the Klan in America against African Americans? In additon, why is the shamrock synonymous with St. Patrick's Day? Who is St. Patrick? Should I wear green on St. Patrick's Day as an African American?

    I know I asked a lot of questions but I just need clarification.

    Thank you and I hope you're feeling better,
    Angel Holliday

    On Sunday, March 18, 2001, jeanne responded:

    Angel, I'm Irish, through and through. My grandfather came to this country after completing his medical degree in Ireland. But he was disinherited by his family (of seven priests), and my mother therefore considered herself divorced from Ireland. Ah, family histories. I must confess that I, like you, learned a lot from TR Young's posting on St. Patrick's Day.

    With the help of the Web I can answer your questions about St. Patrick and the shamrock:

    And I can offer some enlightenment about the Irish and the KKK: To the best of my understanding, based on the Southern Poverty Law Center report, the Ku Klux Klan originated in the U.S., in response to reconstruction in the south after the Civil War. The Irish connection would seem to be based on the fact that the Klan is as anti-Catholic as it is anti-racist. But I have just sent a message to the Progressive Sociologists Net, asking TR Young to answer, too, since he is clearly better informed than I.

    On Monday, March 19, 2001, TR Young responded:

    Dear Angell:

    Lots of Irish came over to the states in the famine after 1845 and many of them settled in the South...and as in Ireland, poor farmers and poor workers had to compete with the poor of their 'class' enemy. In Ireland, almost 90% of the land was stolen by the Crown and given to protestants loyal to England...by James I [he whose name is on the King James Version of the Bible] and by Cromwell and by other kings and queens.

    And poor Catholics had to compete with poor Protestants; so poor Catholics organized a variety of secret societies to sabotage land owners and to compete with poor protestants.

    Poor Catholics in the US South adapted elements of these secret societies---crosses, hoods, secret oaths, secret raids and such to oppress their chief competitors in the South; Afro-Americans...especially after the Civil war and the suppression of the South.

    In 1877, the Hays compromise got the North out of the South and the Klan developed to reverse what few and meagre gains of former slaves in the South. A shame perversion of the religious support of Catholic priests and Church the Irish knew in Ireland.

    I know little about St. Patrick himself...Ireland was a center for Christianity long before the brits took it up...and St. Patrick was part of that long history...I doubt he drove snakes out of Ireland but I expect he was a good teacher and role model...check him out on the web.

    And do wear the Shamrock whenever you can.

    The luck of the Irish to you, TR

    jeanne had posted her request on Progressive Sociologists Net on March 19, 2001.

    PSN postings My students were so intrigued with your "Luck of the Irish," I am inundated by questions, good questions. I've done my best to answer, but wondered if you would be kind enough to reply to some of their more complex questions.

    Angel Holliday's March 18 questions can be found at Shared Comments on St. Patrick's Day and Justice

    Thanks,
    jeanne

    • On Monday, March 19, 2001, Keyana Woolen wrote:

    Hello Jeanne! This is Keyana Woolen from all of your classes. I read Angel Holliday's shared comments on St.Patrick's Day and Justice and there are a lot of things that are unclear to me. I need some answers.

    1. Why is March 17th the reserved day for St. Patrick's Day?
      jeanne's response: I don't know! Here are two versions of the story of St. Patrick: St. Patrick of Ireland and Legend of St. Patrick.

      But neither of them mentions March 17.

    2. Who decided that we should wear the color green? What is the significance in that particular color?
      jeanne's response: Again, I don't know! But I can share with you the Legend of the Shamrock.

      I still remember a song my mother sang to me:

      Sure a little bit of Heaven
      Fell from out the sky one day
      And nestled in the ocean
      In a spot so far away

      And when the angels found it
      . . .
      They said suppose we leave it
      For it looks so pretty there.

      It's been years since I thought of that song and my mother's singing it. She must have taught me, for the melody is there. I think this might explain the green. Ireland is lush and green, very beautiful, really, just as the angels said. Although my mother didn't feel any allegiance to Ireland and to the family that disowned her father for becoming a medical doctor, she did have a strong attachment to the land itself and the songs, perhaps learned from her father.

    3. Did the refugee Irish plant the idea of the KKK as we know it in the minds of the poor white southerners? If so, then why would I, (being an African American) take part in this celebration?
      jeanne's response:

      This time I'm pretty sure I know the answer. No! To the best of my understanding, based on the Southern Poverty Law Center report, the Ku Klux Klan originated in the U.S., in response to reconstruction in the south after the Civil War. The Irish connection would seem to be based on the fact that the Klan is as anti-Catholic as it is anti-racist. But I have just sent a message to the Progressive Sociologists Net, asking TR Young to answer, too, since he is clearly better informed than I. The KKK is, however, active now in both Ireland and South Africa. But it's an export from the American South.

    4. Also,I always wondered why my mother makes corn beef and cabbage every St. Patricks Day? I mean should we even be celebrating this day? And what is the significance in eating this particular dish?
      jeanne's response:

      Again, I don't know. But I suspect it is the folk culture that came with my mother's family. Like the songs and the love of the lush green land, she found comfort in the traditional foods. Sharing them with the Irish is a little like sharing "soul food."

    5. What is a PUB?
      jeanne's response:

      I DO know what a PUB is. It's a local drinking spot.

      Here's a site that will give you an idea: Cronin's Irish Pub: Crosshaven, County Cork. Ireland. And look to Irish Immigrant Pub for some history.

    These are just a few questions that I haven't the answers to. Thank you for your time and I'm glad to see that you're back in the running!!! Keyana Woolen