On Wednesday, October 25, 2000, Marlene Veliz wrote:

In class today I was able to understand and connect to some of your examples. I work at an elementary school with forth and fifth graders, who are at the stage where they don't know whether they are children or teenagers. I think they are still kids who are not being respectful with the adults. I agree with Berthena. I believe she said we tell the kids to please sit down a couple of times and they still don't listen. I believe that is when we, the adults, get so frustrated that we use dominant behavior.

We have a student who misbehaves with mostly all the adults in campus, except his teacher and the principle. He literally ignores adults. This child lives in a group home, which in a way leads to an understanding of how he behaves. But things just get worse as days pass by. He has gotten to the point of cursing at teachers and adults. He challenges anyone who speaks to him; he says no adult has authority over him, therefore he doesn't have to listen. What is worst of all is that the staff is not allowed to tell him anything even though we are about to >>>>. The behavior of this child leads other students to believe that they also have the right to not listen to us and to refuse to do what we say.

Incidentally, last week I asked a student to give me some Pokemon cards he had, which they are not allowed to take to school. The "bad" student was there. The student refused to give them to me, and gave them to the "bad" student. I was really upset. The "bad" student immediately said "She isn't going to do anything to me; she is nobody." I immediately told the principal because I believe this situation has to stop.

Most of the adults on campus try to avoid him because of the discomfort they experience in interacting with him. Overall, most of the students are well behaved. Most children show appropriate deference to the adults on our campus because our school draws students from many areas. About 90% of our students take the bus to school. The bus ride allows our students to interrelate with one another. Our students are of Latino, Afro American, and Samoan ethnicity. They all behave, and most importantly, play together, not separated.

On Friday, October 27, jeanne responded:

Marlene, this is a good comment. And at this point I would give a B+ for it. You have done a good job of giving us enough detail that we can relate to the situation. You have linked that conceptually to class discussions in which Berthena Kemp commented on problems of discipline created by ignoring the dominant discourse. And you indicated that you saw a connection between the problem and dominance.

For an "A" I would want you to develop the theory a little more: When children disrespect adults they are violating normative patterns in the dominant discourse. Especially in the school, where the primary task is socialization, to disrespect adults is to rebel against the tradtional hierarchy. Rebellion in adolescents is to be expected. But the rebellion of discovering oneself must be balanced by the socialization of the child into the approaching adult roles. The question of how to balance the constraints of normative practice and recognized hierarchy against the need to protect the imaginary and the agency of the young is always present. Notice that this minimal conceptual linking ties your comment back into theory and into our texts.

You opened up a whole new avenue when you told us that you immediately notified the prinicipal. What did the principal do? How did the action or inaction of the principal shift the balance between requisite constraint and the protection of the child's imaginary and agency?

It would make your comment academically stronger either to not mention the new topic, or to provide closure on the topic once it is mentioned.

In the last section of your comment you switch topics, to the pleasures of cooperative work, respect for adults and each other, and inclusion of all. I'd be very careful of the implied causal analysis of "because our school draws students from many areas." Many schools draw on broad groups of students. Many countries have divers ethnic groups. That does not always insure mutuality and cooperation and respect. This last section could be completely broken off and afford you a whole new comment.

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